NLD, NVLD

NVLD should be just a disorder of "scholastic" skills, without ANY connotations to social, emotional, behavioral and sensory areas. I strongly dislike using the term NVLD to describe socio-emotional disorder. I think that it is a gross error and understatement which has to be stopped as fast as possible. "NVLD" (especially "social" one) - it is just "bright", "soft" sort of AUTISM. NVLDers can be properly named as high-functioning (but not "classical") autistics and PDDers for me. The name "learning disorder" or "communication disorder" is blatantly wimpy and inadequate for me.

NVLD should be classified as a pervasive developmental disability when it makes someone "weird and odd" since childhood.

Social, emotional and behavioral anomalies are significant even in the pre-school age in PDD, but they may not be so apparent when a child just does not to school.

* Lack of eye contact and other nonverbal communication impairments,
* strange "rituals" and emotional reactions,
* bizarre thinking,
* hyperkinetic and hyperactive behaviors,
* sensory problems,
* idiosyncratized or (and) restricted social interests,
* "atypicality" of interests
are signs of ASD, not learning or communication problems.

"Really" high-functioning PDDs appear like something similar to "just" intellectual giftedness.

But they are "gifted" also with "Gift" from German language, where that word means "poison", "venom". They are "twice GIFTed".

They tend to have at least VIQ or PIQ in above-average range, gap may be quite large, but it is not a requirement.

Interests are "globally" wider than in typical ASD (but may be "strange", "impractical", "childish"), speech may be really normal, literal interpretations may be anomalously rare.

Clumsiness is not uncommon. They may look very "nerdy", with intelligence, social ineptitude and obsession. Birth weight may be often really low, below 5th centile.

In some cases it may be something like "mild" form of multiple-complex developmental disorder (a PDD which blends traits of autism spectrum and schizophrenia spectrum), which leads to confusion between fiction and reality or (and) severe emotional dysregulation in its classic form. In "really high-functioning PDD" unusual and magical, bizarre thinking may be present.

I know about dyscalculia, it is more "narrow" math disability than "full-blown" NVLD. Dyscalculia is mainly about numbers, counting... NVLD has (mainly) problems with visual and spatial skills. Learning disabilities should be "only" about scholastic skills, NVLD should be just visual-spatial(-motor) disorder, not a serious socio-emotional problem.

I want to fight with NVLD and SCD terminology and replace it with (high-functioning) autism and PDD.

Main symptoms of pervasive developmental dysfuction are in three areas:
1. social
* nonverbal communication impairment (expressive or (and) receptive), such as poor eye contact, inadequate facial expression and gestures;
* limited and (or) idiosyncratized social needs (troubles with social reciprocity);
* failure in maintaining relationships (especially with peers);
2. emotional
* inadequate emotional reactions;
* atypical, bizarre emotional reactions (such as uncontrollable and (or) inadequate laughter, disturbed feeling of shame);
* high anxiety, strange fears;
* emotional "immaturity);
3. behavioral
* specific pattern of interests ("strange", "obsessive", "restricted", "impractical");
* obsessive-compulsive symptoms;
* hyperkinetic behaviors or (and) stimming.

This group of symptoms (social, emotional and behavioral, SEB) should be the best indicator of ASD and PDD.

When they are present from (relatively early) childhood, "pervasive developmental disorder" occurs for me. They make someone "weird" and "odd". Other symptoms, such as clumsiness, sensory problems, hyperactivity, language problems are also very often present in this group (in different level of severity).  But SEB triad is the most core group of symtoms for me.

I think that the term "nonverbal learning disability" should be used only for visual, spatial (and maybe motoric) problems. But this "pure" NLD still may be really problematic, not only in scholastic, but also in occupational area.

I suppose that I have a mild form of NLD. I am poor visual thinker, somewhat clumsy and a good verbal learner. I do not have "autistic" talents such as really good visual thinking or eidetic memory.

Social, emotional and behavioral developmental disorders are so similar to "classic" autism to be classified as a "learning disability".

I think that "NLD" and "classic ASD" have to be classified under one name in one category (NLD is more destructive than dyslexia and (at least most, I think) forms of ADHD). I think that classification of developmental disorders used in America is not good, it is even harmful and inadequate in some cases.

"Socio-emotional-behavioral developmental disorders" (SEBDD, such as "classic" ASD or (at least many cases of) NLD) or intellectual disability are "complex developmental disorders" (CDDs) for me, dyslexia or isolated speech problems are the examples of "specific developmental disabilities" (SDDs). If you have a CDD, you could  be rather easily named by others as "stupid", "odd", "weird", if you have just SDD, you are rather "normal".

Severe dyssemia and obsessiveness are for me the most common signs of SEBDDs.

Not deficits in the theory of mind, rigid thinking, poor scholastic skills, severe sensory problems... You may have really mild problems in these areas and still be really inept. "NLD" has not to be "generally" milder than high-functioning "classic" ASD.

I agree that the terms such as NLD or SCD are confusing. NLD and SCD are rather groups of the symptoms of PDDs. I read about quite disabling condition which is rather unknown in my country - SCT (sluggish cognitive tempo). I think that I may have even quite severe form of it. It makes somebody daydreaming, spacey, lethargic and sluggish. I do not have larger scholastic difficulties because of them, but it makes somebody "generally slow", "sleepy-like" or "as in the fog". But I wrote that I was described as "hyperactive" or even "hyperkinetic" somewhen in the past... I think that I rather have SCT (maybe even form early childhood), it is irritating for many people (such as my parents) and it is something not so good... It is somewhat like having below-average IQ or maybe even worse is some situations than low IQ. It may make someone more socially inept, withdraw and isolated. I have rather limited social needs. I sometimes can feel like somebody who is handicapped, maybe also because of SCT symptoms. I think that it could be in the ASD or PDD criteria such as sensory integration disorder symptoms in DSM-V.  I think that I am not so high-functioning due to SCT as I thought.

Not all sorts of “nonverbal learning disabilities” cause social ineptitude, especially in childhood. I would classify that sorts of “NLD” which cause “social disability” as pervasive developmental disorders and sorts of autism. Social/emotional issues of “NLD” described in Dinklage’s article are symptoms of something more serious than just a LD for me. For me sorts of “NLD” which has such issues are types of “aspieness”, not (only) learning problems!

http://luckyottershaven.com/2015/04/09/ … ment-15691



For me this diagram is not so good. "Classic Asperger's" is more similar to childhood autism (Kanner's syndrome) than Rett's disorder and childhood disintegrative disorder. Classic AS and Kanner's syndrome belong to one "etiological" spectrum, they are so similar! Rett's and CDD are significantly other than Kanner's and are of other families of PDDs in my opinion, unlike "classic Asperger's".

For me much of "NLD" cases are cases of PDD due to "Aspergian" symptoms such as for example:
- one-sided conversation,
- fixated interests,
- "loner" personality,
- lack of basic social skills,
- unusual thinking etc.
And I would name this sorts of "NLD" as sorts of autism! Non-Aspergian NLDs do not contain symptoms listened above. These sort of NLD are not sorts of psycho(neuro)developmental syndromes characterised by social inadequacy and peculiarity.

Not all sorts of (developmental) autism should be associated with:
- lack of theory of mind,
- lack of central coherence,
- language and speech problems,
- sensory processing anomalies,
- rigid thinking and routines etc.
These symptoms are characteristic only for one sort or family of something which I would name as "(developmental) autism".

Ostatnio edytowany przez noclaut2 (2015-05-11 10:16:04)

I strongly disagree with the opinion seen on that page: https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-think … in-the-DSM (Question: What do you think about the way that all forms of NVLD have been grouped under ASD in the DSM?)

I think it’s stupid.

I often call the DSM the “Damn stupid manual”.

NLD is not autism. Sure, there are some similarities, but there are lots of differences too - differences that ought to affect treatment and that certainly affect prognosis.

Perhaps the biggest difference is that many people with autism are very visual thinkers; Temple Grandin even wrote a book called Thinking in Pictures. NLDers, on the other hand, tend to be very verbal thinkers. We are bad at the nonverbal stuff.

Another difference is stimming. While the proportion of NLDers who stim is probably higher than in the general population, it is surely lower than the proportion of autistic people who do.

And interpersonal relations also are different.

I think that preventing NVLD individuals to be in one category of developmental disorders with ASD is a disservice to NVLDers because it underestimates the severity of NVLD. I have rather NVLD than ASD and have no friends and colleagues (and may even not have so much need to have them), my nature appears to not crave for social acceptation and being loved. I am rather verbal thinker and have VIQ significantly higher than PIQ and think that in USA I would not be diagnosed with ASD/PDD.

Maybe not all, but many NVLD forms could be named "autism" in my opinion. So I would disagree (at least in some way) with the opinion that NVLD is NOT autism. For me "social communication disorder" from DSM-V is a sort of autism. For me everything which makes a child socially inadequate and peculiar is "autism". Schizoid childhood disorder is also "autism" for me.